Curse

Free Runner · Jun 18, 2008, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Order of Whispers

The Order still exists and has moved beyond the borders of Elona. The first to discover the awakening of the dragons—in Orr, and elsewhere—the Order was aware that nobody would believe them. They chose instead to spread their members across Tyria, gaining as many converts as possible and then slowly educating them about the real danger threatening all the races of the world.

They work with the Krytans and Ascalonians, and even maintain a presence in Elona, although crossing the Crystal Desert is currently impossible due to Palawa's stranglehold over the southern reaches and the desert dragon's presence in the northern desert. Still, the Order of Whispers somehow maintains communication with Elona, aiding its military in their fight against Palawa and his minions.

The Order of Whispers also contributed to the continuation of human knowledge when Lion's Arch was flooded, threatening the great library within the city. The Order rescued thousands of ancient scrolls, books, and other historical artifacts, carrying them to a hidden monastery in the nearby Shiverpeaks. Stored far above the rising waters, these antiquities remain the only true records of the ancient age of humanity. The monks of that monastery are part historian and part warrior, studying and protecting their sacred charges.

Thats the section on the Order of Whispers. For future reference the Guild Wars 2 wiki holds the article, "The Movement of the World" which includes the bits on the Dragons. The original page on PC Gamer has gone AWOL.

Steps_Descending · Jun 18, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

*sigh* I guess the Movement of the world is what I remember.
Either way that would make the situation easier : we know that Glint was created by the gods. One less scaly friend to look after.

Trinity Fire Angel · Jun 20, 2008, 04:15 AM // 04:15

I want to know why the Rotscale is guarding that house? And the Rotscale is the hardest to kill. Glint is surely very easy... is the Rotscale actualy a re-animated Glint? because, you know... we killed her when we stole her egg, yet she re-appears in ghost form all the time and asks us to do stuff for her.... where is she leading us?

Konig Des Todes · Jun 20, 2008, 04:54 AM // 04:54

That "house" is - at least believed - to be the tomb that the Scepter of Orr was kept before the White Mantle found it. Rotscale cannot be a re-animated Glint because Rotscale was created in Ascalon by the Stone Summit - in accordance to the Beta that is. And that "ghost" form of glint is her Avatar, not an actual ghost.

Glint is not killed lore-wise, only in the bonus. She is very much alive by the time of EN even. And if you don't know where she "leads" the characters, I think you need to re-watch the ending cinematic for Hell's Precipice (the last mission in the game) and then read the dialogues for the quests she gives after you beat that mission. Also, the cinematic when entering her room in Dragon's Lair mission also explains where she is "leading" the players.

Gmr Leon · Jun 20, 2008, 05:54 AM // 05:54

That actually isn't the tomb where the Scepter of Orr was found. If you watch the cutscene at the end of the Gates of Kryta mission closely, you can see these red "flies" flying around the little tomb and, I think, a bit of light coming through the trees.This cannot be seen where Rotscale resides.

Also, if they had taken the Scepter from that tomb, you would see them right down at least two flights of steps and across a small bridge, which you do not see.

I've tried to check out most, if not all, areas shown in the cutscenes in Prophecies. Assuming you don't go there to trigger the cutscene yourself, of course.

Konig Des Todes · Jun 20, 2008, 08:04 PM // 20:04

I know GmrLeon, thats why I said "believed" to be the tomb

. I never thought it to be the place.

ken71880 · Jun 23, 2008, 09:46 AM // 09:46

This is an interesting disscusson, I only have one question. In NF, Goren comes across a dragon egg, tries to store it in the Xunlai Vault, then is banned from ever using them again. So he goes to the Hidden City of A---- and the egg hatches. Not, every time I go there, I see this baby dragon. How does this fit into this discussion

Free Runner · Jun 23, 2008, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken71880

This is an interesting disscusson, I only have one question. In NF, Goren comes across a dragon egg, tries to store it in the Xunlai Vault, then is banned from ever using them again. So he goes to the Hidden City of A---- and the egg hatches. Not, every time I go there, I see this baby dragon. How does this fit into this discussion

Considering its a Saltspray Dragon that appears, and Elona doesnt have any native Saltspray Dragons in the 4 regions we see, its possible someone brought the dragon over and Goren somehow got hold of it. But like Albax its of no real importance and seems to be one of a few dragons that dont appear hostile.

Hugh Manatee · Jun 23, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Well, aside from the living dragons, there are a few "dead" or "sleeping" ones I've seen around, one inbetween Grothmar wardowns and Dalada Uplands, the one at the bottom of the frozen lake in Drakar Lake, the one in the Great Destroyer's chamber, there's a very, very large very long dragon in the Underworld, on the path where all the obsidian behemoths are it coils around and into the mountains. I haven't noticed one as part of the landscape of the tarnished coast yet, but there are some very large bones in the chrystal desert....

Konig Des Todes · Jun 23, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Crystal Desert bones are guessed to be from the Giganticus Lupicus (The Great Giants).

The Underworld dragons were twin brothers who challenged grenth and lost, how you see them is their punishment.

The one outside Grothmar Wardowns, nicknamed Grothmar due to location, is suspected to be one of the Ancient Dragons, the "Water Dragon" that flies south and corrupts the land under it, landing in the Crystal Desert.

The dragon in Drakkar Lake, nicknamed Drakkar, is highly suspected to be the Dragon of Ice and Snow that pushes the Norn south.

The dragon in the Great Destroyer's chamber, Primordus, the "leader" of the dragons. First to awaken of the Ancient dragons and the only one we know the name of. This dragon is what created the Great Destroyer.

There is also a "Deep Sea Dragon," that is sleeping under the water between Cantha and Tyria/Elona, and an "Undead Dragon," that is sleeping under Orr. These two are not noticeable in the game.

Free Runner · Jun 23, 2008, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

Well, aside from the living dragons, there are a few "dead" or "sleeping" ones I've seen around, one inbetween Grothmar wardowns and Dalada Uplands, the one at the bottom of the frozen lake in Drakar Lake, the one in the Great Destroyer's chamber, there's a very, very large very long dragon in the Underworld, on the path where all the obsidian behemoths are it coils around and into the mountains. I haven't noticed one as part of the landscape of the tarnished coast yet, but there are some very large bones in the chrystal desert....

Those are the dragons i mention in the Ancient Dragons passage. The ones in the Underworld are not actually dragons hence i didnt mention them. The bones are suspected to be Giganicus Lupicus. Its still up to speculation if the GL and Ancient Dragons are the same or just creatures from a long passed era (since it is mentioned the Dragons stretch further back into prehistory)

I will be adding pictures of the 3 dragons that can be seen aswell as the references in various areas of the world of Tyria.

Mark Nevermiss · Jul 08, 2008, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Here is my theory about Kuunavang:

Points to be considered:

- During the dragon festival, the emperor reveals the origins of the event where a celestial dragon answered the prayers of an emperor and helped him unite Cantha. Hence came its name: the Empire of the Dragon.

- Kuunavang, and all the saltspray dragons - which became maddened by the jade wind- closely resemble the celestial dragon we encounter at Naphui Quarter.

- Kuunavang is actually capable of granting celestial skills.

- Kuunavang is revered in Cantha.

Hence it is my assumption that at least Kuunavang is somehow linked to the celestial dragon mentioned during the event; either a descendant or itself? Celestial beings obviously can be corrupted, again by testimony from the Oracle:
Suun: "Kai Jun Don, the Kirin. The embodiment of corruption."
Suun: "The being of pure good, turned to pure evil."
So it is acceptable that a powerful envoy as Shiro could corrupt it.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 08, 2008, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Mark, the problem with that theory, although good points, is that the name of the Celestial Dragon is said in the very mission you quoted, by the ery same person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suun

And finally, the mightiest of them all, Tah Mu, the Dragon. A constant reminder of atrocity, pain, and anguish.

So being the same being isn't really possible, and I don't think a Celestial can create other beings that are not celestials themselves (although it is possible I suppose). Only possible reference to one of the Celestials creating non-celestial beings would be the Canthan New Year events.

Mark Nevermiss · Jul 08, 2008, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Oh I was not referring to Kuunavang being the celestial dragon mentioned in the mission. I was implying she MAY be the one mentioned by the emperor or related to it.

draxynnic · Jul 08, 2008, 06:26 AM // 06:26

When discussing the celestials in Nahpui Quarter, it is worth mentioning that each of them actually represents a Canthan that was in some way significant to Canthan history. Tahmu, for instance, was a Canthan empress who called down the celestial dragon to defend Kaineng in much the same way, and with greater success, as Adelburn is going to do for Ascalon.

The "atrocity, pain and anguish" that the constellation is a reminder of referred to is the situation that caused her to do so in the first place. Since the threat was from Naga, which were at least less hostile before the Jade Wind and nearly extinct afterwards, it seems likely that this event was actually in relatively recent history, after the appearance commemorated by the Dragon Festival.

The point being, however, that each appearance of the Celestial Dragon seems to be to act as a benefactor of Cantha - however, this means that the situations in which it needs to appear tend to be dire indeed.

Regarding the place of dragons in the world: My suspicion is that while Glint may be related to the Tyrian Ancient Dragons, the dragons of Tyria and Cantha are seperate (possibly related, but certainly different species and probably genus as well). It's possible they all arose in Cantha and those that would evolve into the Ancient Dragons went north, or maybe they evolved separately from some common ancestor native to both continents.

When the gods arrived, the Ancient Dragons (with the possible exception of the young Glint, if she's one of them) fought, while those of Cantha didn't. Possibly the original Celestial Dragon is the Canthan equivalent of the Ancient Dragons and decided not to fight. As a result, most of the true dragons in Tyria ended up being slain, and those that were too powerful to be killed were either trapped or went into hibernation to escape by choice. During EOTN, something appears to have made Primordus aware that the gods weren't physically present on the world any more, so he's starting his bid for reclaiming the world.

It's interesting that the Destroyers seemed to get to Glint's hidden lair, but they didn't spill out in non-EOTN locations. This could be because there were other Destroyer outbreaks we didn't see, but it could also indicate that the Destroyers sent to Glint's lair were a special effort - possibly to punish a traitor?

The Canthan dragons, for whatever reason, chose not to fight, and instead seemed to adopt themselves as guardians over Canthan humanity until they, along with the dragon turtles and most of the kirin encountered by the players, were corrupted by the Jade Wind. Since there's no specific mention of Kuunavang and Albax in the lore, my suspicion is that they just happened to be the most powerful of the Saltsprays - the latter of which managed to resist the effect of the Jade Wind, while the former either resisted and was corrupted directly by Shiro afterwards, or was overwhelmed by being at ground zero when it happened.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 08, 2008, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Nevermiss

Oh I was not referring to Kuunavang being the celestial dragon mentioned in the mission. I was implying she MAY be the one mentioned by the emperor or related to it.

I know that you were not connecting Kuunavang to Tah Mu, however, I was implying that the Celestial Dragon the emperor mentioned was Tah Mu. As there is probably just one Celestial of each animal, may be wrong though, as we never really see more then one "Celestial Pig" or "Celestial Rat," or even the four in the missions (minis don't count as real celestials as far as I'm concerned and those "copies" we fight in the mission are not Celestials, as Adept Nai said, they are just duplicates).

Also note that a possible argument against what I'm saying is that we kill Tah Mu, this is incorrect as we just kill a representation of it, at least according to Suun (and I think he knows his stuff). I suppose we will have to wait for the Year of the Dragon to come by in order to tell who is the real Celestial Dragon that the emperor mentioned, as I assume that the Celestial Dragon to come by that year will be the same (if GW1 even lasts that long and GW2 does have Cantha sometime before then).

Mark Nevermiss · Jul 08, 2008, 09:46 AM // 09:46

It seems Tahmu was human at one point:

"The Dragon, a reminder of atrocity, pain, and anguish.

Tahmu was an empress well known for her generosity and kind spirit. The people of her lands were all her children, and she made sure none went without food and shelter. When the Naga attacked, her private guards urged her to flee the city that she might save her own life. But Tahmu would not abandon her children. She called to her people to take up arms and defend themselves against the Naga, and she herself went into the streets to do battle. Unfortunately, the Naga overpowered Tahmu and her people, keeping her alive to witness the torture and murder of every single person in the city. Enraged beyond reason, she managed to break from her bonds and call down fire from the heavens, which streaked through the streets in the form of a dragon, incinerating the Naga attackers. "

Free Runner · Jul 08, 2008, 11:01 AM // 11:01

I believe the Celestials were indeed the real Celestials since the Adept does mention he has summoned them down. However it sounds like you cant really destroy a Celestial since once they are destroyed their essence divides and eventually returns to the stars. It should also be noted that every Celestial we have encountered (Chong and the Celestial Rat are unknown) were once human hence Kuunavang could not of been related anyway.

Year of the Dragon is unfortunatly 2012.

draxynnic · Jul 08, 2008, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Besides, Cantha probably does not want the Dragon getting upset about being fed the same food as every celestial to descend before it since the Pig...

Frenzied Insanity · Aug 02, 2008, 11:40 AM // 11:40

I was doing Sunjiang District mission when I came across this, a stone dragon in the floor. It may be nothing but I thought I'd just share it with you